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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 7, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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upheld by an appeals court. now his lawyers have taken the case to the united states supreme court. it's officially on the docket for tomorrow. what this means specifically is that when the supreme court gets the case tomorrow, governor mcdonald needs four members of the supreme court to agree to hear his case. if that doesn't happen, if he doesn't get four supreme court justices saying they want to hear his case as a supreme court case, then governor bob mcdonald is going to prison. this is his last chance. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> rachel, you know how i always thought you need two shows. well, what you're going to get is several minutes of this show, as you just said, later on. we're following up on the comparisons that you made between george wallace's '68 campaign and the trump campaign, very valid comparisons. we're going to see what the wallace campaign manager says about that. we're also going to hear from george wallace's daughter about that. >> oh, wow. you got the taughter? >> we have a statement from the daughter.
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>> you're kidding. i'll just stay right here and watch the whole thing. >> thanks, rachel. >> the anti-government rebel in oregon that you online have named tarpman has made it to the big time thanks to seth myers. and ted cruz says he won't take donald trump's legal advice about his eligibility to be president of the united states. >> the idea that anybody thinks they should be president. you got to be out of your mind. >> the birther fight doesn't seem to be ending between donald trump and ted cruz. >> donald trump has just tweeted this -- ted cruz, free legal advice on how to preempt the dems on citizens issue. >> i'm not going to be taking legal advice anytime soon from donald trump. >> meanwhile, donald trump is taking his campaign to bernie sanders' backyard. >> socialism guy, you know, communism guy, i don't know what the hell he is. >> the trump campaign gave out
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20,000 free tickets. that venue only has 1,400 seats. >> trying to fit ten pounds of fun in a five-pound bag. >> if it was a phish concert, what would you do? >> we would cancel it. >> trump seems to be relishing the frenzy? >> what's a better word than the word stupid? stupid. ♪ made of money no future at all ♪ >> tonight, donald trump says he's worried about his friend ted cruz. he's not worried about how well ted cruz is doing in the polls. no, no, no. he's worried that something terrible could happen to his friend because rafael edward cruz made the mistake of being born in calgary, alberta, canada. >> the worst thing that can happen is he gets sued by the democrats and that he's not allowed to run. i would say he should go to court and get it declared -- what they call a declaratory judgment where you ask a judge to make a ruling before the fact.
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and i think something like that would be very effective. i do think it's probably something that he should get off his shoulders, because it's a tough issue. i mean, he was born in canada and a lot of people see that. he was a canadian citizen, i guess, for a long period of time. he gave it up, what, 14 or 18 months ago. it's not an easy issue. it's a very complex issue. hasn't been adjudicated yet fully and hasn't gone to the supreme court. but i think if he got a declaratory judgment, that would solve the problem. >> harvard law school graduate ted cruz is not about to listen to a mere business school graduate about a constitutional question. >> i'm not going to be taking legal advice anytime soon from donald trump. my response when donald tossed this attack out there was simply to tweet out a video of fonzi from "happy days" jumping a shark and to move on. these attacks -- this is the silly season of politics. >> unfortunately for ted cruz, the question of who is a
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natural-born citizen and therefore qualified at birth to be president of the united states. it's not as silly as he would like. it has been the subject of much legal scholarship over the years, including some by our first guest, harvard law professor lawrence tribe, who was one of ted cruz's teachers in law school. 100-page article in the boston university law review in 2005 by sara duggin and beth collins could not find certainty in the meaning of the phrase "natural-born citizen" and ended by recommending a constitutional amendment specifically to clarify the citizenship qualification to be president of the united states. the article concludes the natural-born citizenship status of millions of americans is open to question. natural-born citizenship is absolutely certain only for united states citizens born post statehood in one of the 50
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states, provided that they are not members of native american tribes recognized by the united states government. to varying degrees, the natural born status of all other united states citizens is suspect. joining us now is harvard law professor lawrence tribe. professor, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. my pleasure. >> you actually entered this discussion on behalf of john mccain in 2008 when his status was questioned. you wrote a legal memo on this matter. and what did you find in the case of john mccain? >> well, in john mccain's case, both ted olsen and i, who jointly were asked by the senator to write a memo, concluded that he was probably a natural-born citizen because he was born on a united states military base in the canal zone, which was a u.s. territory, and
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he was born to two american citizens. his mom and his dad were both american citizens. but even that was not absolutely certain, because, as you said in the lead-up to this piece, the matter has never been definitively resolved. that article that you mentioned by professor duggin was a really elaborate study. i read it some years ago. i remember being imprezzed they had thorough lis canvassed the evidence. they were able to conclude that this is one of the black holes in the constitution. >> yeah. >> something that ought to be clear. it's not like a broad concept like liberty or equality. it's not a terrible thing to have debates back and forth about what those elastic terms mean. but when it comes to the qualifications for the
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presidency and those who are in line to become president, it really does matter whether there's a cloud over the office. we want it to be clear. things like you've got to be 35 years old, you have to be a resident for 14 years. but then this natural-born citizen sort of joker in the pack is a source of great difficulty. we know that the original reason for sticking it in there probably doesn't apply anymore. it was put there, the history makes pretty clear, to prevent people with foreign rather than american loyalties from infiltrating themselves into the oval saufs, as it now is. and a lot of people, including me, think it's a pretty un-american concept to say that members of indian tribes and tens of millions of naturalized citizens can't become president. but without amending the constitution or getting a definitive ruling from the u.s.
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supreme court, it's just wrong to say, as senator cruz has tried to say, that it's a settled matter it. isn't settled. >> well, let's listen to what your former student said about this just yesterday. >> as a legal matter, the question is quite straightforward and settled law, that the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural-born citizen. people will continue to make political noise about it, but as a legal matter it's quite straightforward. >> professor, you want to grade that as an answer on an am? -- exam? >> i would say incomplete. he was a good student. he was a smart student. he got an "a." president obama was a student of plien also and the chief justice. they were just as smart. but the fact of the matter is there's no authoritative answer to that question. it doesn't become
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straightforward just because ted cruz wants it to be or because i might want it to be. we don't have the last word on this, nor does the last word with lawrence o'donnell. we just don't know the answer. >> and do you see differences that you think could be relevant to a supreme court ruling on this? differences between the mccain case and ted cruz's case? >> sure. in the mccain case, one could really say that he was born in the united states. it was a united states military base. it was part of the canal zone. it's not really part of a foreign country, even though it was the canal zone within the surrounding area of panama. and both his mother and his father were american citizens because of his military duty, they had to be out of the united states proper temporarily. and the supreme court is known to draw all kinds of lines that don't necessarily relate to the
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original meaning of the document, although scalia would like it always to reduce to that. here we don't have clear evidence as to even what the original meaning was. we know some things about the purpose, but if it became a supreme court case, and there are some ways that it could -- then the supreme court might draw all of these possible distinctions between senator mccain and senator cruz. >> and professor, i would like to do a quick minute before we go on some of the reasons at the time of the drafting the constitution why there is some fog around this. and that includes the fact that they were very knowingly excluding from citizenship people who they knew were born in the united states and were being born in the united states, born into slavery in mississippi, born into indian tribes. they were very conscious of
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people being born in the united states who they would not regard as citizens. >> at the beginning, they had lots of purposes that we now would not want to embrace. they wanted slaves to be 3/5 of a person. they didn't think dhekd become citizens at all, let alone natural-born citizens. the original americans, the native americans, the indian tribes and their members, they wanted to treat as second-class citizens not full citizens. we don't embrace all that, but when there's a technical term in the constitution, we don't just say well, it's sort of outdated. there are some people who want to say that about the second amendment and its original purpose was to make sure that the states wouldn't be overrun by a powerful central government. but you won't find many strong advocates of the second amendment on ted cruz's side on
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this. so it seems to me that it's an open question. >> professor, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate i want. >> thanks, lawrence. >> coming up, the trump campaign landed in bernie sanders' backyard in vermont. plus, rachel maddow told you about this, the executive director of the george wallace's 1968 presidential campaign has been joining us. she's been doing these fascinating comparisons comparing donald trump's campaign to george wallace's segregationist campaign back in 1968. wile also hear from george wallace's daughter about those comparisons. ♪ ♪
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>> every time i think about those kids, it gets me mad.
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>> he was talking about the massacre of first graders in connecticut, and surprisingly after that, there was this reaction to president obama's emotion. >> well, i actually think he was sincere. i'll probably go down about five points in the polls by saying that, but i think he was sincere. it's a thing that he feels -- you know, i think he's incorrect about it. just taking chunks and chunks out of the second amendment, but i think he probably means well. >> up next, a live report from donald trump's rally tonight in vermont. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day,
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>> trump will not allow anyone who isn't a fervent supporter to be allowed into his campaign speech. people were asked if they supported trump. if they answered anything but yes, they were escorted out. it turns out the test run of the trump muslim ban didn't work. some trump opponents managed to talk their way past the trump police. >> get them out of here. don't give him his coat. confiscate his coat. it's about 10 degrees below zero outside. >> the correct word from that order from trump is not confiscate. it is steal. that is the front-runner for the
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republican presidential nomination urging his audience to steal someone's coat. classy guy. >> i knew i was going to have some in vermont, in all fairness. if we didn't have that, it wouldn't be vermont, right? hey, why do you think the other republicans are not coming up here, folk, okay? >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent katy tur in burlington, vermont, where donald trump held that rally tonight. joan walsh is here in new york and jonathan allen joins us in washington. katy, did anyone steal your coat? >> no, i still have it on, fortunately. it's 18 outside. not 10 below, but 18. >> the trump police didn't work at the door? >> no, but you have to give the trump campaign a little leeway here. it's a 1,400 capacity theatre. they gave out 20,000 tickets and they quite honestly and quite
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obviously wanted their supporters in there. so when they were asking at the door if you are a bernie sanders supporter or some other supporter, they were turning you away because they were obviously trying to get their supporters through the door. they did release a statement saying there was 20,000 people they were trying to get in. they weren't going to bod bother with anyone who's undecided or someone who doesn't like donald trump. as you saw, though, that didn't quite work. what was most remarkable was when the protesters were being thrown out of that theatre, they walked out and came out to massive cheers from a crowd of hundreds outside, each doing their own little victory lap outside as they were coming out of the theatre. the trump campaign, trump himself, in addition to saying they should confiscate the quotes, as the night went on and more and more protesters disrupted, he kept saying that security was being nice in the beginning, but more and more as it went on, as more people
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disrupted the security would get harsher and harsher, which suggested they would get violent. which is a little bit new with for the campaign. they had said in past rallies, don't hurt the protester, basically. we respect first amendment rights. the protesters are protesting. don't hurt them. and they started chanting usa, usa, usa or trump, trump, trump to drown them out. we did see a little bit of that tonight. a little disconcerting to hear the front-runner for the gop nomination say that security is going to get harsher, essentially, with people who were disrupting his rally. >> joan walsh, bernie sanders took the opportunity to issue a statement about donald trump tonight saying donald trump and i finally agree on something. he wants to run against me, i want to run against him. it would be an b extraordinary campaign and i'm confident i would win. and the one-on-one matchups in the polls showed that bernie
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sanders would win. >> i think he would absolutely beat donald trump. who is a very small, scary man. not only did he luxuriate in his sadism that katy points out. those are my words, not her words. he's hearing people jeer him who are actually saying i love you because he's waiting for the time he can get tougher and tougher on these protests and solve some knee of his own. it's such a scary thing to see in a candidate for republican or democrat. bernie sanders would destroy him. >> hillary clinton was barely mentioned tonight. ted cruz barely mention by donald trump tonight. i guess this is his version of positive campaigning. he's going to advocate stealing coats and not saying anything bad about hillary. >> well, after a day in which he released an instagram video of hillary clinton in photographs with anthony weiner and bill cosby, of course making reference to bill clinton and
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and his sexual i indiscretions in the past, i don't know that trump is entirely laying off of hillary clinton at this point. certainly not laying off of ted cruz with these birther comments about the constitutionally of cruz standing for president. what i do think is going on here, though, is donald trump is fighting bernie sanders right now, not for the general election, but in the primary in the neighboring state of new hampshire. voters can go in on the day of the election and choose either a republican ballot or a democratic ballot no matter how they voted in the past. that's a real issue for trump and for sanders trying to wage outsider campaigns. they're going to want to attract independents, people willing to switch parties our have no party to come and vote for them in new hampshire's primary. i think that's what's going on for trump more than anything else. >> polls do show an overlap of trump and sanders support. so there is an opportunity for each one of them to try to pull people across that divide.
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>> certainly. and i talked to a number of trump supporters who say they also like bernie sanders. there is some crossover appeal, even though they both have very different policy positions. they have sounded similar, at least on things like trade. and they are both trying to court the disaffected, the angry, the american worker who feels like the economy and technology maybe has passed them by and they don't feel like they're being taken care of by the economic system we have in place, by the government we have in power. and they're both saying, don't worry about it, we're going to get into office, each one of them is saying this, and we're going to fix this. we're going to get jobs back from overseas, we're going to get you back to work, make it so that you're part of the middle class again, not struggling in a way you have been for the past decade or so. >> let's listen to what nbc tried to talk to bill clinton about today as a result of that insta gram message. that became the question of the day for bill clinton.
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let's listen to this. >> donald trump is again today making an issue of your past transgressions. do you want to respond? and are you worried that your past could hurt your wife's campaign? >> i don't have any response. if he wins the republican nomination, we'll have plenty of time to talk about it. i have no interest in getting involved in their politics or doing anything except trying to help hillary. >> what's your reaction to -- >> joan walsh, where do you think we are in the story arc of that piece of the campaign? begin, middle, end? is this going to peter out. >> i think it will eventually petr out, but i think the clinton campaign is somewhat worried about it. although the smooth move of the day was her campaign did a throwback thursday photo, a wedding photo of bill and hillary looking very much in love. i think that's a kind of stick in your eye. i think they're trying to play against one of these things started with hillary clinton
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saying we should believe rape victims. >> a tweet. >> and she was then assaulted by republicans and others. donald trump has now taken this out of the kind of toxic bog of right-wing hate where all of these allegations, they never died. we think it was litigated 20 years ago. i'm feeling a lot younger this week, i don't know about you, lawrence. we're back in the '90s. i loved the '90s. but it's dangerous. it wasn't litigated for 20 somethings and 30 somethings who don't necessarily remember it and are hearing some of this for the first time. this could hurt her. like he's doing with cruz, he's creating this weird -- he's a gremlin and creating this weird world of doubt and forcing people to respond to things they would really rather not talk about right now. >> jonathan allen, i read an article on vox today i think was targeted towards the 30-somethings that jones is talking about, who aren't so familiar with the catalog. it's written from a totally different perspective than these things written in the '90s,
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including this 21st sefrmry frame of such accusations should be believed unless otherwise specifically contradicted. >> yeah. this 21st century frame that, of course, makes a lot more sense to democrats when they hear it today than it would have 20 years ago. you know, i think the argument here that hillary clinton is hypocrite call or doesn't believe in women's rights or specifically doesn't believe in protecting women who have been assaulted as a broader policy matter is, you know, i think is something that the campaign thinks the public isn't going to buy into. that said, if it's repeated enough and there are allegations that have not been disproven, that could become difficult for them over time. really, i thought it was interesting to see the tape, uncommon discipline from bill clinton on the campaign trail to not answer that question. >> and should be noted, hillary
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clinton picked up an extraordinary endorsement today. planned parenthood, first time they've endorsed in a primary in this kind of situation. we're going to have to leave it there tonight. katy tur, joan walsh, jonathan allen, thank you for joining me tonight. coming up, why some people are comparing this election to 1968. and there are so many comparisons. including the similarity between donald trump and george wallace. r and move, groove, wiggle, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leak guard barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most and a discreet fit that hugs your curves, you barely feel it. always discreet underwear so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. because hey, pee happens. get your free pair and valuable coupons at always discreet.com to prove to you that aleve is the better choice this is claira.
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>> you're a little punk, that's all you are. you haven't got any guts. you have too much hair on your head, partner. you got a load on your mind, that's right. >> what a bunch of losers, i'll tell you. you are a loser. you really are a loser. now get him out. >> that video is from the brilliant work that rachel maddow has been doing this week on her program comparing donald trump to the segregationist candidate for president in 1968. one person who thinks the comparison is valid is george wallace's daughter, peggy wallace kennedy who told us in a statement today that, like her father, mr. trump understands that the two greatest motivators for disaffected voters -- hate
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and fear -- encourage individuals to make political decisions in a reactive mode rather than through an intellectual process. peggy wallace kennedy publicly endorsed barack obama's presidential candidacy in 2008. she is sharply critical of her father's segregationist record but she thinks donald trump is worse than george wallace, in at least one respect. she told andrew kaczynski of buzz feed, i think daddy had a respect for the process and the candidates. he would have never levelled vicious attacks on the other candidates, especially those that have been so personal. daddy never would have done that. joining us now, tom turnipseed, who was the executive director for the george wallace 1968 presidential campaign and his wife, judy turnipseed who also worked on that campaign. thank you both very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir.
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>> tom, give us your sense, or tell us how you would compare, if you would, george wallace and what we're seeing with donald trump. >> well, they both use -- there not the first ones that ever did it, the politics of fear. of course, they're so different in a lot of ways. wallace was like a farm boy, kind of a poor guy to begin with and so forth, but he understood -- people don't know this, but he started out as a real progressive guy. and he was progressive on a lot of issues. but on race, the first time he ran for governor, he was endorsed by the naacp and his opponent john patterson was endorsed by the klu klux klan. and governor wallace got beat the first time he wan. so then he allegedly said, somebody quoted him saying that he would never be, just saying
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it out-niggered again. the black folks are taking over. trump, the mexicans who come in and the chinese. fear is a motivator number one in many other ways. so they're a lot alike in that. you had to play on fear, you know, fear of this group or that group. they're going to get you and so forth. motivate people to vote. >> i would like to read a little bit more of what peggy wallace kennedy told us today in a statement that she gave us. she said in 1968, the wallace campaign slogan was stand up for america. today donald trump asked voters to let's make america great again. neither offers a pathway
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forward, but both remind the average joe that america is sitting on four flat tires, and that's worth a whole lot of political capital. judy turnipseed, do you agree with that? >> yeah, i do. i think that both of them appeal to the same type of person, to the poor, working class people who were really want to make america great again, or in their opinion great again. and their fear of the government, fear of people who are not like themselves. and so they're alike that way. they appeal to the same kind of people. i think their style is a lot alike, too. they draw a big crowd and get them all excited.
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they don't talk much about substance, but more about what the problems are, what they should fear. not so much what to do about it. so they're a lot alike in that way. >> mr. turnipseed you gave of george wallace, it's a very famous quote that we've all read and some of us have heard many times about his reaction to the racial politics of losing that campaign. you've traveled a fascinating road yourself, having gone from not just a wallace supporter but running his campaign. you've called yourself a reform racist. you became a civil rights lawyer. you actually sued the klu klux klan at some point. talk to us about that journey you went on from, say, after running the wallace campaign forward. >> wallace was an economic populist, but his racist defeated his purpose.
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there were poor white folks and poor black folks in the south big time. and i left the wallace campaign in 1972 and came back to south carolina. i don't want to get into too much detail about it, but we launched an organized group and we intervened in a rate hike from monopoly franchise utilities. and they were charging way too much to the lowest volume residential users, which all happened to be poor blacks and whites. and an african-american attorney was a great attorney and still is, henfield pride, came and joined me and volunteered to help cross-examination the witnesses for the public service
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commission. and he did a great job and took on the legislature who are getting large retainer fees from the utilities to put people on the public service commission that would rubber stamp the rate hikes. they were coming down, you know, real, real hard on the poorest people. so anyway, henfield came over and took them on and cross-examined and did a wonderful job. and i just said my gosh, you know, we just got involved. and i got more involved and got to thinking, well, what we need to do is get working class people together, black and white. >> i could go on and on. i would love to talk more about this in the future. thank you very, very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up next, the latest on those armed rebels whatever you want to call them in oregon holding their ground in a bird
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to fight, the local sheriff tried playing good cop with the armed anti-government rebels who took over a federal bird sanctuary in oregon. >> the people of the county are excited about working out the issues that come from government overreach and that. but before this thing turns into something negative which would ruin all of that, i think we need to find a peaceful resolution and help you guys get out of here. >> we're here for the people of harney county. we're here because the people were ignored. >> but at some point, this is all going to have to be resolved. and i think right now while it's on a positive note, let's work it out. >> tuesday night when lavoy finnicum, one of the armed rebels made his debut on this program, many of you realized that tarpman, as you immediately named him online, had a big
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future ahead of him in comedy. >> by far the weirdest development yet in this whole episode happened last night during a seemingly routine segment on msnbc. >> for the latest, we're joined now by msnbc national reporter tony dekoepel live in princeton, oregon. >> let's stop there. as you see in the background, there's a blue tarp. you might be thinking what's under that tarp? supplies? firewood? no, the answer is so much better than that. >> over my shoulder is a man under a blue tarp sitting in a rocking chair with a rifle over his lap. >> so there's a guy under that tarp there? >> a 55-year-old rancher from arizona named lavoy. >> that's right. there's a dude under the tarp sitting in a rocking chair holding a rifle. that sounds like a guess in a game of militia clue.
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but this keeps getting better. the man under the tarp has a very good reason for sitting there. >> he says there's a warrant out for his arrest, that that's what he says. he does not plan to accept that warrant. he doesn't plan to go peaceably if the police come. >> that's right, lawman. i ain't ever coming out. >> we were here all day long and we didn't' any provision shipments coming in. >> oh, cletus, you have to cut me some air holes. i just hot boxed myself. >> we'll be right back. about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation
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i have a massive heart attack oright in my driveway.d the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. >> today on the one-year anniversary of the deadly terror attack on charlie hebdo, police shot and killed a man yielding a butcher knife outside of a police station.
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the man also had a fake explosive device and a piece of paper with an isis flag on it and a claim on responsibility for the attack he was going to carry out. his ties to the islamic state, however, have yet to be determined. coming up, my hero. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your investments through good times and bad. for over 75 years, our clients have relied on us to bring our best thinking to their investments so in a variety of market conditions... you can feel confident... ...in our experience. call a t. rowe price retirement specialist or your advisor ...to see how we can help make the most of your retirement savings. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. if you have high blood pressure many cold medicines may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp.
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♪ light piano today i saw a giant. it had no arms, but it welcomed me. (crow cawing)
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it had no heart, but it was alive. (train wheels on tracks) it had no mouth, but it spoke to me. it said, "rocky mountaineer: all aboard amazing". >> who's your hero? someone who plays in the super bowl? not me. i'm going to talk about one of my heroes tonight and my hero will get tonight's "last word." suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief ♪ (cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic.
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>> now for the good news, i was surprised on our first show this week big time when my friend victor chinyama showed up. he was here to celebrate the k.i.n.d. fund crossing the $10 million mark in total fundraising since we began this project of providing school desks for kids in need of desks in malawi, as well as scholarships for girls attending high school in malawi. on my first trip to malawi, there was the person who found the desk maker who we then used
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to make the very first classroom of the desks, a group of desks that i just paid for with cash out of my pocket. we delivered those desks on that first trip. wouldn't have happened without victor. dana here at msnbc who did all of the detailed planning of my first trip to malawi believed that victor, whom she had met via e-mail would be a valuable adviser. so dana arranged my first meeting with victor and thanks to them the k.i.n.d. fund was born. without victor, i would not have been able to provide a single desk. and the girl's scholarship program was victor's entirely. and without dana's planning i would have never met victor. i tried to thank dana many times for this. i did that once again today, but i know i can never thank her enough. so, too, is victor. when we finish the show on monday night when joy reid surprised me by announcing
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victor's arrival, we hung out here on the set and talked a little bit more. >> we're back with victor, first of all, you were clearly surprised. >> amazed. i had no idea. and i've never been more nervous at this desk. for whatever reason, reasons i don't quite understand, i do not get nervous on tv. this has been the most nervous tv night of my life. i have no idea what they were planning, no one told me anything. it is so great to see you. victor told me before we did our first delivery that first time, it's going to bes like christmas morning. those were your words, it's going to be like christmas morning for these kids. and it was every time. >> it was. when the kids saw the truck rolling into the compound it was, you know, they ran towards the truck and, you know what -- >> and they burst into song without anyone directing them. >> singing and dancing. >> and we say these desks are going to go into that classroom.
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>> we had about six guys who came with the truck intending to move these desks into the classroom. they didn't get to move one of them because the kids ran right up to the truck. you can see them in the video, they like to show off how strong they are, and they are strong. every once in a while you'll see a boy or a girl lift one alone to show, you know. and it's a fantastic moment. >> about five months after that first delivery, i spoke to a girl called promise. she was 14, a seventh grader. and for seven year she is sat on the floor. and she told me, i love coming to school. it's a fantastic learning experience now and i want to be a doctor. education is a pathway out of poverty. and for many of them, it's their chance to become who they want to become. but, you know, they go to a school where there's they sit on the floor, you know, the infrastructure is not there. the toilets are not there. there's no sanitation. the quality of learning is as
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poor as it can get. and so when you come in, you provide a desk for a kid that's been sitting on the floor for seven years every single day, six hours a day and you say here's a chair you can sit on. and you can sit and learn. it's incredible. >> 50,000 promises now that we'll become doctors and teachers and nurses, whatever they want to be. >> victor and his wife have three children, including one daughter. he looks at the social and educational problems at a country like malawi with a social scientist's eye and careful analysis and he looks at the kids we are trying to help in malawi with a father's eye. he has a father's hopes for them. he easily convinced me and my daughter, who was with me that day that we should add a girl's scholarship program to the k.i.n.d. fund in the third year, and he did it with a very clear analysis of the need and a
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passionate hope for what it could achieve. >> that scholarship fund was meant to at least address some of the factors that are pushing those girls out of school. and in most cakes, you find the electrical push factors. they want to be in school. they want to learn. the school requires them to pay due wigs. if they have the means to commuting, then they do self-boarding. you find in the secondary schools, in malawi, they have almost half of all kids in high school. they're the poorest, most ill resourced. you find kids, you know, girls, 5 to 6 renting out a house. not only do they have to pay weekly rent, you know, they have to find money for their own personal supplies. they have to pay tuition and all of that. calculate all of that, we said
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you know what, a scholarship will at least take away the economic disincentive of staying in school. >> victor is on his way back to zimbabwe tonight where he continues his work with unicef to find ways of helping african kids dream bigger dreams, and get the education that can help them reach those dreams. hundreds of girls are going to high school in malawi right now thanks to victor chinyama. hundreds of thousands of chids are going to sit at desks in malawi schools tomorrow, thanks to victor. his name doesn't appear in any of those classrooms. none of the kids know that they have victor to thank for their desks. victor will never be thanked enough. but for people like victor and the thousands of others who work at unicef and organizations like it, they aren't doing it to be
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thanked. heroes like victor are thankful that they get to do this important work. and i'm forever thankful that victor was there when i really needed him. victor chinyama gets tonight's last word. >> i can tell you that a desk delivered at the school, that's christmas for these kids. christmas comes in december 25th and pretty much nothing happens in their lives. when a desk is delivered to them at a school, that is christmas. you have made their day, you have made their year, you have made their lives. the battle of lake champlain. let's play "hardball."
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good evening. it's chris matthews in washington. tonight, donald trump is in burlington, vermont doing what he does best, orchestrated razzmatazz. the republican front-runner is set to take the stage any moment now. he's chosen the bluest of blue states on the east coast. bernie sanders home turf, to build the valley. his campaign issued 20,000 tickets tonight for a venue with seats fewer than 1500 seats. that move in all advancement annoyed the police chief tonight. crowds lined up for hours to get inside. you are looking at the crowd already. meanwhile, across the street, hundreds of antitrump protesters, no surprise, are demonstrating. we don't know yet, but we'll find out how many antitrump protesters will t

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